TRACK DOUBLING UNDER BRIDGES 2 & 3 AT GAYTON

[NIGEL]

Why was the SMJR track doubled under bridges 2 & 3 at Gayton c. 1900 ?  See attached map, the doubling starts at  milepost one from Blisworth junction and stops just short of the reservoir.

[NIGEL]

Sorry Dick, perhaps I didn't make it clear. Forget the narrow gauge line and standard gauge sidings.

If you look at the map under bridges 2 and 3 on the S.M.J.R. line, it appears to be double - was this a passing loop ? If so then where is the signal box and signals ?

[Barry Taylor]

Hi all

This area is a bit complicated, and I'm not sure that I have got to the bottom of it yet !

I've done quite a bit of research into the NBJR down at the Public Record Office at Kew, and the following is what I have dug up on Wheldon's Siding.

The first mention of the siding is July 1878 when the Railway Commissioners arbitrated on a dispute over the rates for carriage of iron ore - the siding is mentioned, but no details given.

Then in March 1881 the NBJR requested a Board of Trade inspection of their 'new arrangements at Wheldons Siding.' This time there is a plan attached, and this shows a short, double ended loop siding on the UP side (ie: north of the running line) controlled by ground frames locked with Annetts key on the single line staff.

In April 1888 the NBJR again requested an inspection of new arrangements at Wheldons. This time the plan clearly shows that the siding had been moved closer to Blisworth, and was now situated on the DOWN side of the line, and this change is recorded in the inspectors report. There is also an 'iron ore shoot' crossing the siding at right angles halfway along it, presumable for tipping into wagons below.

By 1905 when another inspection was made, the siding was back on the UP side of the line in the original position, but somewhat extended from the 1881 situation. Now it had been lengthened (presumably under the bridge although that isn't shown) and also served the ironstone line that had previously just crossed over the NBJR on the wooden bridge, and that previously only sent ore out to Gayton Loop Sidings on the LNWR main line.

The old wooden bridge was destroyed by fire in September 1929.

At some point in time there was also a wooden chute down the embankment side here - presumably to tip into wagons in the siding (there is a pic of this on the Blisworth History Society website if you havent already seen it) 

Altogether a bit strange how the siding got moved about over the years. I don't know whether the original (1878/ 1881) siding became disused when the 1888 one opened or whether they were both used in parallel - but it obviously got used again by 1905?

I'll try to load up some of the plans that I saw at Kew, but my digital photos are a bit murky.

Interesting to hear what you make of the above!

[Barry Taylor]

I've now added the plans for 1881, 1888, and 1905 in the photos section - they don't look too bad if you view them as full-page.

I did say that the bridges were not on the 1905 plan, but in fact they are so that ties it in nicely to Nigel's original map at the start of this discussion.

Discuss!

[Dick Bodily]

Barry

This suddenly clears up a lot of queries and makes good sense to me. Interesting that the siding was moved twice.

I think it just possible that when this siding was on the down side  Bridge 1a, which must have been much higher then than its remains suggest if this was the case, could have been used to convey ore overhead across the N&BR to the siding. However your 1905 plan seems to show Bridge 1a as simply a footbridge across the steep banked stream between the N&BR and the quarry. I reckon the strange metal base that Andy and I found on the up side could have been the support for the ground frame when the siding was in its most recent location on the up side.

Attached is an extract from the1916 Appedix which refers to the siding in its most recent location which describes it as a siding rather than a loop only accessible to up trains.

I've deleted two previous comments that I made on the subject which in view of this information might be misleading.

Dick

[Barry Taylor]

Dick

It looks as though - as we might expect - the sidings were just moved / opened / closed to reflect the quarries that were in use at any one time. Seems that by 1916 the later loop was indeed shortened back to being just a siding too.

The old wooden bridge is interesting too - in my notes I've got reference to George Pell, the quarry owner, taking the NBJR to court over the fact that their newly built line had cut his access from his quarries to the LNWR - the wooden bridge presumably being the result !

Strange though that the history of the1888 up-side siding is a bit vague - it doesn't even get a proper mention in the Tonk's books. It looks likely that it was just an outlet for the quarries of the time, and was then superseded by the original loop again by 1905 - but it would be nice to know when it ceased to be used (unless of course it actually was 1905!) - and also whether the original loop was out of use 1888 - 1905. All very complicated

I agree that Bridge 1a is probably unconnected with the SMJ and was merely a tramway feature.

[Dick Bodily]

Barry

The more I reread Tonks the more I think he was as much in the dark as we are nowadays!

Dick

[Dick Bodily]

Here's a link to Blisworth Images to view the picture of the loading chute to the N&BR, I think this is the picture that Barry refered to. It's picture 18-09 if you follow the link. I will have to go back to Bridge 3 which the Blisworth Images claims it is likely to be to see if it has two arches and looks like the one in the picture and make sure its not Bridge 4 or even Bridge 5. This would seem to clear up the mystery of how Gayton Quarry unloaded stone to the N&BR trains from their workings north of the line, but how wagons were loaded when the Blisworth Iron stone siding was the other side the N&BR remains a mystery

http://www.blisworth.org.uk/images/Ironstone-part1.htm

[NIGEL]

[NIGEL]

The above map shows that by 1900 the tramway had been extended north  from bridge 2  to the quarry shown. This has, in effect, cut the access to the bridle path/ farm track from the Blisworth road to bridge 1A as this path is no longer marked on the map.

[NIGEL]

Dick, bridge 5 is a SINGLE arch blue and red brick construction, bridge 4 is high 3 arch brick built, but now covered in ivy. Bridge 3 is 3 arch red brick built. All been photographed recently.
Dick Bodily said:

Here's a link to Blisworth Images to view the picture of the loading chute to the N&BR, I think this is the picture that Barry refered to. It's picture 18-09 if you follow the link. I will have to go back to Bridge 3 which the Blisworth Images claims it is likely to be to see if it has two arches and looks like the one in the picture and make sure its not Bridge 4 or even Bridge 5. This would seem to clear up the mystery of how Gayton Quarry unloaded stone to the N&BR trains from their workings north of the line, but how wagons were loaded when the Blisworth Iron stone siding was the other side the N&BR remains a mystery

http://www.blisworth.org.uk/images/Ironstone-part1.htm

[Dick Bodily]

Cheers Nigel,

That will save me a visit, so it's either Bridge 3 or Bridge 4, 5 is ruled out definitely. Gayton Wilds Farm which is mentioned in the Blisworth Images photo's caption is nearer Bridge 4 but this would entail a much longer or separate siding. However Barry's 1905 map (part 3) appears to show a ramp East of Bridge 3 on the north side of the cutting so I think we can finally be sure that it was Bridge 3 as Barry suggested I think earlier.

Dick

[Barry Taylor]

Hi all

Agreed - on the western-most of the 1905 plans this is marked as 'shoot'  -  just tucked in alongside the east side of bridge 3. This will be the contraption shown in the Blisworth images photo.

Barry