Hi everybodyI’m building a OO gauge model of Fenny Compton and Clifford Sidings over here in Belgium.Quite a strange idea but so be it…In view of this I plan to transform a RTR Beatie Well Tank into SMJR N° 5 the 2-4-0T and use some etchings for the…Continue
Started by Jack Freuville Aug 29.
Layouts based on actual SMJR locations are few and far between. Due to being given notice on clubroom, Olney as featured in BRM Sept 2023 is for sale!This is a rare opportunity to acquire a beautiful, 15 years in the making, ready to run model…Continue
Started by Nicholas Young Jul 26.
Hi all members.I was wondering if you could help by subscribing to my YouTube channel ‘NWP EXPLORING’ Mainly railway history and some exploring the SMJ .im planning to explore and video more of the SMJ , and if you have a desired area you would…Continue
Started by Neil. Last reply by Henry Jul 10.
An improbable, funny, but absolutely true story relating to the Kineton military railway.Long after my Army days I still retained an affection and passing interest in Kineton ammunition depot where I served during the 1960s. Coupled to a 'love' of…Continue
Started by Dave Hayward. Last reply by Henry Jul 10.
Hello everybody,
Hopefully you can settle an argument for me.
I was chatting to an acquaintance yesterday after looking at a photo of a pannier tank at SUA GWR Station and l said it looks like the fifties and was definitely not later than 1967 as steam had finished there by then and they said that they remember steam engines shunting around at SMJ station in 1968/69. After telling them that steam finished on BR in 1968 and that Stratford SMJ Goods station closed in 1965 they said that was not right.
So, basically, can anyone tell me the date of the last train at Stratford SMJ station and also what was the date the last steam engine worked there.
Looking forward to replies,
kind regards
Rob Davidson
Tags:
The line through Old Town ceased to see trains from 1 March 1965 when the ironstone traffic from Banbury to South Wales was diverted via Hatton (although the signal boxes remained staffed and the line notionally open until 5 July 1965). The line was severed - thus inaccessible - from 22 August 1966. It may have been that there were rail-borne movements at Old Town subsequent to this for lifting the line.
I suspect that your acquaintance may be confusing Old Town SMJ station with the original GWR station - latterly a goods depot - at Birmingham Road, which remained in use for goods traffic until its closure from 6 May 1968.
Richard Maund
Richard Maund said:
The line through Old Town ceased to see trains from 1 March 1965 when the ironstone traffic from Banbury to South Wales was diverted via Hatton (although the signal boxes remained staffed and the line notionally open until 5 July 1965). The line was severed - thus inaccessible - from 22 August 1966. It may have been that there were rail-borne movements at Old Town subsequent to this for lifting the line.
I suspect that your acquaintance may be confusing Old Town SMJ station with the original GWR station - latterly a goods depot - at Birmingham Road, which remained in use for goods traffic until its closure from 6 May 1968.
Richard Maund
Thank you Richard
I can categorically confirm that apart from the demolition trains the very last working over the section of the former SMJ main line between Stratford and Burton Dassett was the SLS special that ran on 24.4.65. This is well documented. It nearly didn't happen because as the line had been out of use for several weeks the district civil engineer gave 26.4.65 as the final day he would sanction traffic movements and the special was hastily arranged. The last steam loco to use the section was 44188 although the special was double headed by 6435 also as far as Old Town station. The crew of the pannier tank offered to continue but the ex LMS crew of the 4F refused and took what was an overweight load for the section for a 4F on its own! They told me a few days later that it was only the benefit of a coating of rust on the rails that helped matters along. It was also the rust on the railhead that had delayed assembling the special at Stratford. When the 1960 chord linking the SMJ to the GW line was built the revised layout was heavily protected by track circuit enabled interlocking but with lack of use it failed to detect when sections were occupied. The special had to be authorised by an inspector phoning Evesham Road box to confirm each movement. ( see my page if you want more info on the complex nature of the triangle of lines ). During the phoney period of closure when there was a bobby with nothing to do at Clifford Sidings a trip working was made by the GW line banking loco once a day to change the water churn and I cannot say for sure that if anyone was on duty at Clifford after the 24.4.65 whether a water churn trip was made, if so that small section of track would have seen movement after the special! All parked and crippled trucks were cleared from Old Town yard prior to 24.4.65.
John
John Jennings said:
I can categorically confirm that apart from the demolition trains the very last working over the section of the former SMJ main line between Stratford and Burton Dassett was the SLS special that ran on 24.4.65. This is well documented. It nearly didn't happen because as the line had been out of use for several weeks the district civil engineer gave 26.4.65 as the final day he would sanction traffic movements and the special was hastily arranged. The last steam loco to use the section was 44188 although the special was double headed by 6435 also as far as Old Town station. The crew of the pannier tank offered to continue but the ex LMS crew of the 4F refused and took what was an overweight load for the section for a 4F on its own! They told me a few days later that it was only the benefit of a coating of rust on the rails that helped matters along. It was also the rust on the railhead that had delayed assembling the special at Stratford. When the 1960 chord linking the SMJ to the GW line was built the revised layout was heavily protected by track circuit enabled interlocking but with lack of use it failed to detect when sections were occupied. The special had to be authorised by an inspector phoning Evesham Road box to confirm each movement. ( see my page if you want more info on the complex nature of the triangle of lines ). During the phoney period of closure when there was a bobby with nothing to do at Clifford Sidings a trip working was made by the GW line banking loco once a day to change the water churn and I cannot say for sure that if anyone was on duty at Clifford after the 24.4.65 whether a water churn trip was made, if so that small section of track would have seen movement after the special! All parked and crippled trucks were cleared from Old Town yard prior to 24.4.65.
John
Rob Davidson said: Thank you John, that is a very positive answer
John Jennings said:I can categorically confirm that apart from the demolition trains the very last working over the section of the former SMJ main line between Stratford and Burton Dassett was the SLS special that ran on 24.4.65. This is well documented. It nearly didn't happen because as the line had been out of use for several weeks the district civil engineer gave 26.4.65 as the final day he would sanction traffic movements and the special was hastily arranged. The last steam loco to use the section was 44188 although the special was double headed by 6435 also as far as Old Town station. The crew of the pannier tank offered to continue but the ex LMS crew of the 4F refused and took what was an overweight load for the section for a 4F on its own! They told me a few days later that it was only the benefit of a coating of rust on the rails that helped matters along. It was also the rust on the railhead that had delayed assembling the special at Stratford. When the 1960 chord linking the SMJ to the GW line was built the revised layout was heavily protected by track circuit enabled interlocking but with lack of use it failed to detect when sections were occupied. The special had to be authorised by an inspector phoning Evesham Road box to confirm each movement. ( see my page if you want more info on the complex nature of the triangle of lines ). During the phoney period of closure when there was a bobby with nothing to do at Clifford Sidings a trip working was made by the GW line banking loco once a day to change the water churn and I cannot say for sure that if anyone was on duty at Clifford after the 24.4.65 whether a water churn trip was made, if so that small section of track would have seen movement after the special! All parked and crippled trucks were cleared from Old Town yard prior to 24.4.65.
John
John Jennings said:
(see my page if you want more info on the complex nature of the triangle of lines)
Can you quote the URL of the webpage in question, please?
The then Assistant Area Manager, David Mather, writing in Cotswold & Malvern Line News spring 2016 issue, says (inter alia): "....after the line from Kineton to Evesham Road was closed completely on 5th July 1965 coal wagons still had to be taken to Cliffords (sic) Sidings..... In order to get into the sidings the train crew needed the permission of the signalman at Kineton to release the points with the train token. This was not possible as the Signalbox (presumably he means Kineton box) was closed so a token was obtained (presumably he means for the Kineton - Clifford block section) and kept in the Assistant Area Managers desk for the driver to collect as he passed through the station in order to gain access to Clifford Sidings via the disused junction at Evesham Road. This arrangement continued until the new Rail Coal Concentration Depot being constructed on the now closed Leamington Avenue station site was completed."
I have several "difficulties" with this. Firstly, Clifford Siding was (according to an internal BR circular at the time) closed to all public traffic from 4 November 1963 and Old Town likewise (apart from the grain silo private siding) a week later - with traffic thereafter to be dealt with at Leamington. Was coal traffic exempted from these closures? If that is the period Mather is talking about, then the SMJ was fully operational and no such "cloak and dagger" stuff with a token would be practicable while the iron ore trains were still passing (nor even necessary).
Perhaps Mather was confusing it with the water cans movements that John Jennings mentioned, in the "phoney war" period after 1 March 1965 (prior to that the cans would have surely come from Kineton?) until the box became unmanned. Or was he really talking about coal traffic after 5 July 1965? Either way, the movements couldn't have been later than 22 August 1966 when the whole SMJ line "at present closed will be taken out of use pending removal" (to quote the weekly notice) [note the distinctions between being "closed", being "taken out of use" and "removal"]
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