The last passenger train on the SMJ?

[Andy Thompson]

Can we confirm that Ex-GWR Pannier Tank 6435 was the last passenger carrying train (although it was a spoecial and not a scduled run) over SMJ metals in April (24th) 1965.

When was the actual last scheduled passenger - 1952?

Andy

[Dick Bodily]

Andy

The pannier was not allowed to run further than Stratford Old Town, 4F 44188 took the last passenger train to Woodford and back although the pannier had doubleheaded with it down from Snow Hill. According to 6 Bells Junction, 44188 completed the railtour by taking the train back to Birmingham single handed.

I've cut and pasted this from elsewhere on the site it was contributed by John Jennings some time ago

'The VERY last train in April 1965 was double headed into Old Town by a 64xx series pannier. The lead driver on the 4F was Ted Hewins an ex LMS man and he refused to allow the 64xx to go any further ordering it to remain at Old Town where it could keep its "bloody WR lower quadrant signals company". This ensured that the last train over the SMJ was hauled by an 0-6-0 Goods keeping the tradition of the line intact.'

Trouble is there's so much good stuff on this website now that it's difficult to find what your looking for. For instance the confirmation that Towcester bridge had Lucas on it was already hidden away in an article by Richard Copping that was in the documents section while we were debating what the advert was.

Still our website must be the envy of other disused railway websites. Keep up the good work, Andy.

Dick

[Andy Thompson]

Well thanks for the kind words! I should be put up for an award! I know what you mean about stuff and getting to it all - I certainly think the ability of you members to be able to uplaod your own SMJ is very very useful and out weights any lack of layout/editoral abilities by use of a third party platform (in our case www.ning.com).

Good for Ted!

Andy

[Barry Taylor]

Andy
Given Dick's qualification about 44188 actually hauling the last special passenger train I think that we can consider this to have definitely been the last one - albeit an enthusiasts special.
As for the last scheduled train - if you define this as one that a member of the public can just turn up and buy a ticket for - then it would seem to be the last train on the Blisworth - Stratford service on 5th April 1952.
BUT - how about this one just to confuse the issue !
I have a note from the 'Railway Observer' that states that on March 3rd 1956, a train headed by 44491 tender first was run from Byfield / Blakesley / Towcester to Blisworth to connect with a 5.16pm excursion from Northampton to Wembley Central, and consisted of 3 well filled coaches. Apparently a similar train had been run about 12 months previously. Presumably there must also have been a return trip to get passengers back home later?
Strictly speaking this was also a special - but not of the enthusiast variety - and we might therefore consider it as a public train ? I wonder whether similar trains were run in any other years ?
Barry

[Dick Bodily]

Barry

I think there were was at least one excursion to Stratford Mop after the 1952 closure.

I have very vague memories of travelling to Stratford Mop as a small child on a excursion. I distinctly remember setting off from Blakesley and being aware that I hadn't travelled in that direction before, only the other way to Towcester previously. I can also recall being aware of when the train slowed as it climbed gradients en route. The strange thing is the coach we were in was open and not compartmented. Several people from our village were on the excursion including the headmaster of the village school, who I don't think I would have known as early as 1952.

I have early even vaguer memories of travelling to Towcester on regular trains. The last time, in the winter just before the closure it was dark when we arrived back at Blakesley and mum was naturally reluctant to cross over the line to the up platform direct exit to Blakesley High Street until the train had left for Morton Pinkney. However the footplatemen reassured her that the train wasn't going anywhere for a few minutes and that it was quite safe to cross. The engine was a 3F as I recall it was one with a longer chimney than the 4Fs that I saw on the freights.

Dick

[John Jennings]

Sorry I have been absent from this debate. My earlier comments used the term "double head" I apologise as that was a MISTAKE, the two locos were at opposite ends of the train (in modern terms the horrid top & tail) as the shunt to enter Old Town was performed. I cannot add much to what has already been said other than to confirm that 4188 did return with the special and was therefore the last loco to haul passengers on the SMJ Main Line. For the record the pannier did not actually haul (or propel) the special train whilst it was on SMJ formation. It was on the rear of the train assisting the shunt that was being performed exactly as per the first two legs of my description of this procedure on my blog. The train arrived on the up North Warwick and stopped in advance of signal 45 with 4188 then on the front facing Towcester and the pannier on the rear. When 36 points were reversed and 45 signal was cleared the whole train went forward (making a good smokescreen) onto the "new " up curve. Once the catch points and track circuit had been cleared and the junction reset 4188 stopped at signal 44 and the panier was uncoupled at the rear of the train. 4188 drew the whole train forward into the station and the pannier drifted along and stopped at signal 44 which was now at danger. It remained there until the special had gone forward into the section to Clifford. There can be no valid claim that the pannier "hauled" this last special at any time on SMJ metals. I do agree with the comment that there is a lot of material getting "lost" on this site as things get fragmented.

I am searching the records that I have to check on the alleged special public trains ran after closure for either Stratford Mop Fair or the Grafton Hunt Race meeting. There was definietly a special put on from Broom to Stratford on Oct 12th 1948 after suspension of regular passenger trains. I believe it originated from Birmingham and was advertised as a Mop Fair special

[Dick Bodily]

John

Do you know if the train had worked down to Stratford GWR from Snow Hill with an engine at each end?

Dick

[John Jennings]

The train came into Stratford GW from Snow Hill as a traditional double header, 6435 was on the front and detached at the end of platform 1 leaving 4188 on the train (see picture on my page). 6435 was run into the West Box siding to wait for 4188 to be detached and run light engine to turn on the triangle. This happened following the argument with the driver of 4188 regarding taking the pannier over the SMJ leg of the tour. In fact what happened was that 4188 completed the first two legs of the turn and waited in advance of signal 44 now facing Clifford. Meanwhile 6435 went onto the front of the train on platform 1 and pulled it forward to the rear of the Evesham Road crossover where the whole train was propelled back onto the up North Warwick ( this normally light engine move meant that the whole train was pushed back towards Stratford GW over the still closed crossing gates, I don't think such a move would be approved of these days!!) 6435 then propelled back down the up North Warwick following the procedure for turning a loco as per my description elsewhere. When the road was cleared for the train to access the new up curve the inspector ordered 4188 to reverse back to signal bracket 49/45 and couple up to what was now the front of the train. The operation was not helped by the fact that due to lack of use some of the the track circuits did not work properly and the complex interlocking did its job and failed safe. This was why it took such a long time to carry out the shunt. Once signal 45 had cleared the whole ensemble with 4188 at the front and 6435 on the rear then proceeded as I described earlier! They really did make it up as they went along. There was such haste to organise this last trip that I canot recall a special notice being issued with any operating detail. I was told at the time that the date was the very last available for a possession of the entire SMJ main line because the civil engineer refused to sanction any passenger carrying after that date as all pw inspection had ceased. The organisation of the shunt at Old Town was done by the local inspector and the signalmen on duty on the day. There is a small amount of cine footage around of the action at Old Town, I think it was taken by Stratford resident Terry Dorrity but I am afraid I have lost touch with him. Perhaps if he reads this site he can confirm whether that film still exists

John

[Dick Bodily]

In R Robotham's 'The Last Years of the GC Main Line' there's a picture of the train leaving Woodford on the return journey headed by the 4F, which has been turned to face Stratford, so presumably the turning triangle at Woodford shed was still functioning althoughn the shed was to close 2 months later.

[John Jennings]

Sorry for an error in the above. Line 9 should state that 6435 hauled, not propelled back along the up line, it had already propelled back through the crossing!!

John

[John Jennings]

Another note to clarify my statement on 6/10/09. I was initially answering Dick's question as to whether 6435 topped and tailed into Stratford GW. I now see that my answer could cause conflict with the photo of the event because I said 6435 was on the front, I should have added that it was on the front but inside 4188! The release was effected by both locos uncoupling and running forward under the Alcester road bridge to a point near the West Box crossover, the locos were then uncoupled from each other and the pannier ran back through the crossover and took refuge in the West Box siding. 4188 was offered forward to Evesham Road as a light engine move in the normal way to commence the manouvre already described. After one of the crew of 6435 had visited the box to confer with the bobby the pannier was almost immediately sent back reversing its course onto the front of the train. It was then sent forward to stand at the West Box down starting signal and subsequently on into the section to Evesham Road. This urgency was necessary because the special had already stood in platform 1 for some time and as all arriving down trains needed to use that platform no doubt a cat's whiskered DMU from Birmingham or Leamington was stood waiting at the East Box starting signal

John

[Andy Thompson]

Last train on SMJ etc - by Robin Cullup

I am sending you a couple of photos of 44188 on the SLS Special of 24.4.1965 at Stratford. One shows the loco and train at Stratford South Jcn - 6435 attaching or detaching at the rear of the train; and the other shows 44188 and train standing at Old Town Station. Photographers unknown.
There were quite a few "special" passenger trains over the SMJ after regular services finished in 1952, and learning about these is quite fascinating. There are a number recorded in the various railway journals - especially "The Railway Observer". Trains running over the Ravenstone Wood - Towcester section are particularly fascinating as the regular service over this stretch lasted but a few months.
A letter in the August 2009 edition of "Steam Days" relates the passage of trains carrying National Servicemen from Cardington, Bedfordshire over this section to Stratford and on to Bridgnorth. This, apparently was a regular working and the serviceman describes it as "an interesting journey, which ended in hell". That would be Bridgnorth, of course, not Stratford....
The Railway Observer reports a Luton - Stratford evening excursion using this route on 27.7.1949, I wonder what time they got back home?
Something that also appears in the Railway Observer is an entry in December 1953 (p 345):
"Diesel railcar W16 was reported at St Pancras on 23.10.1953. It is believed to have brought members of the Literary section of Solihull Society of Arts to London via Stratford-on-Avon, Olney and Bedford".
Barry Taylor has given me details of another GW railcar on a Paddington - Olney special that ran off the SMJ at Blisworth - across the LNW main line and then via Northampton , Hardingstone Jcn to Olney. No return details are known. Date 24.7.1954.
Did anyone see these railcars on the SMJ? - and did W16 run over the Towcester - Ravenstone Wood section? If so, what a sight to behold as it ran onto the Tin Bridge at Roade over the LNW.
Photographs of either of these events would be welcome, and did anyone witness the passing of these railcars?
I await replies and comments with interest.
Robin Cullup

[Andy Thompson]

Images with thanks from Robin Cullup